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0:00 When I learned that it was okay to not know everything, 0:04 that it's okay to ask questions and ask for understanding, 0:07 allow myself to be mentored, that's when opportunities presented themselves and that's when I gained the best experiences. 0:15 Welcome to Small Steps Giant Leaps, the podcast from NASA's Academy of Program, 0:19 Project and Engineering Leadership, or APPLE. 0:22 I'm your host, Andres Almida. 0:25 Knowledge at NASA is passed from person to person, program to program. 0:29 Heather Kaler, NASA Technical Fellow for Flight Mechanics, has worked on many programs, 0:33 including the Space Shuttle and a Space Launch System rocket for Artemis. 0:37 She also developed a NASA technical standard, 0:40 a documented set of rules and specifications that says how systems should be designed and operated 0:44 on protecting spacecraft from micrometeoroids. 0:49 It's still in use today. 0:51 Hi, Heather. Welcome to the podcast. 0:53 Thank you, Andres, for having me. 0:54 I'm excited to be here. 0:55 You've worked on several programs, 0:57 you've written space shuttle flight software, you've led technical teams on a space launch system. 1:02 How has knowledge from one program carried over to another? 1:06 At NASA, it's common for engineers to support multiple programs over their career. 1:11 As you mentioned, I started working on the space shuttle, 1:15 but my career has spanned other manned missions, science, and planetary missions as well. 1:21 If you're in engineering discipline, like flight mechanics, for example, you provide the mission designs, 1:27 you develop simulations and models, you perform analysis for all the different phases of a program's life cycle. 1:34 And you do that repeatedly for all the different programs and projects over your career. 1:38 Every program you support, you gain understanding of all the systems and the components that make up 1:44 that flight system. 1:45 You learn how to solve problems with specialized tools and methods tailored to solve 1:49 that program's unique challenges So spending time and energy in solving these complex programs 1:55 for one Often will translate into solutions or close to approximations 1:59 for another program Knowledge gets transferred from one program to another through the experiences 2:05 of the engineers as they transition to different programs So for example the guidance navigation 2:10 and control algorithms we developed for a solar sail CubeSat mission Those algorithms include models 2:16 for reaction control thrusters, or navigation sensors, or star trackers. 2:22 Engineers are also really good at recycling and reusing those models in other flight mechanic simulations 2:29 for a different mission. 2:31 And they might use the same navigation sensors or similarly sized thrusters. 2:35 So the knowledge that you've gained in integrating and operating, 2:39 characterizing the performance of one system is often a really good starting place for how you start the next program. 2:46 You often will adapt your tool sets and models to new constraints or slightly different environments, 2:52 but the methodology you refined on that previous effort is often the very best starting point for the next one. 2:58 Another example, my previous work on the Space Shuttle Program, that was just a really complex effort. 3:05 It involved the integration of every major engineering discipline, propulsion, 3:09 avionics, structures, communications, just to name a few. 3:12 So some of those major components in the space shuttle system, 3:15 they were recycled and upgraded to what we see today in the Artemis program, 3:20 the RS -25 engines, the solid rocket boosters and the core stage tank, 3:25 even some of the software processes like launch day targeting. 3:29 Those aspects of the space shuttle software architecture were recycled and reused for the space launch system software. 3:36 The engineers that designed and developed and operated the space shuttle, 3:40 well some Some of them are still here today and they support SLS and Orion Artemis program today. 3:46 So they brought that shuttle knowledge with them into the new architecture. 3:51 So having that experience on those past programs is just really helpful in your design meetings 3:55 and your review boards when you're trying to solve new problems, 3:58 even if it's with the same hardware or similar hardware, but it's being used in a slightly different environment. 4:03 And what about those values and soft skills that you've developed over the years? 4:07 Do they transfer over pretty well? 4:08 Oh, yes, you know those soft skills presenting the really technical 4:13 Solutions to a problem you you grow and develop those skills repeatedly, right? 4:19 You're you're bringing those in front of your chief engineers in front of working groups. 4:22 You really go through the wringer and trying to communicate 4:26 Where the risks are where the gaps in your understanding are and just trying to make sure that 4:32 you can communicate whatever the solution is to that problem to the right audience. 4:36 So you really refine your skills over the years on these programs going through the entire lifecycle. 4:43 Now we know not all knowledge gets written down, so how do you ensure it doesn't get lost? 4:48 That's a really great point. 4:50 I think humans learn best from observing others and doing something firsthand and doing it repeatedly. 4:55 So I was very blessed to have had great mentors throughout my career. 4:58 They let me practice and sometimes fail and sometimes fail again, 5:03 but they kept letting me perform those tasks and gaining that experience, but always under their guidance. 5:09 My best mentors were very patient. 5:11 They explained what they were working on, how to use a software tool, how to design something to avoid a failure. 5:18 These people sat with me in technical meetings. 5:20 They whispered in my ear. 5:22 They had side conversations with me in the hallway. 5:24 everything from the technical aspects of a system to just the understanding the organizational cultures, 5:31 the personalities of the people in the room. 5:33 That really helped me understand how to be a better technical leader and how to maybe motivate 5:37 and influence decisions even when you're not in a position of authority. 5:41 That strong mentoring really can shape a career as it did mine. 5:45 Many organizations around NASA, they try to pair senior engineers with early career engineers 5:50 to make sure knowledge isn't lost. 5:52 This is really a common practice on the Space Launch System, one of the programs that I worked on, 5:57 where they would pair mid-career engineers with senior engineers in a very specific discipline 6:03 or a leadership role, and then that prepared that person to do the next level of that job. 6:09 So pairing different experienced people on new programs exposes those early career employees with opportunities. 6:16 They get hands-on experience as the designer, as the developer, as the tester, or the lead. 6:21 They get direct mentoring from a senior person and they're not really completely responsible for the product 6:27 because you're working with that senior expert right by your side. 6:30 In my organization the NESC, NASA Engineering and Safety Center, 6:34 we will often invite early career employees to serve on technical assessment teams. 6:39 Again, they get exposure to solving complex problems, they're working with the team, 6:43 they're learning alongside more experienced engineers, 6:46 and another way that knowledge and experiences gained and preserved is is from doing independent analyses or tests. 6:53 NASA is investing a lot in commercial space partnerships 6:57 and that sometimes means we aren't responsible for designing the system but we're buying a service instead. 7:04 So performing independent analysis or simulation of that commercial provider system, you get hands-on experience. 7:12 You're modeling specific hardware under different operational constraints 7:17 but you're also gaining insight into that different system and the engineers 7:22 that perform those independent insight tasks can still learn valuable lessons on where the limitations 7:28 of a certain design are, how requirements can be interpreted differently, 7:32 and they see creative new applications of technology and then those lessons stay with the engineer and 7:38 they contribute to their overall experience base and can be applied to the next mission. 7:42 What are some of the formal ways you pass on these lessons? 7:44 Some of the formal ways that we share lessons preserve and transfer knowledge is by presenting webinars, 7:51 technical presentations of engineering material. 7:53 It might be fundamentals or it could be cutting edge technology or the lessons learned from a past program 7:59 or a previous flight anomaly or failure. 8:03 In my organization, the NESC, NASA Engineering and Safety Center, 8:08 we keep a library of recorded webinars from NASA experts 8:12 covering all of those types of engineering disciplines and flight and test programs. 8:18 We provide training regularly on new software tools or engineering processes, 8:23 including leadership in systems engineering, 8:25 all the aspects that you might need to run and manage a technology or flight project. 8:30 We bring back retired NASA engineers to teach special topics or historical lessons. 8:35 And we record interviews with experts to capture lessons learned along the way. 8:39 So across NASA, you can find knowledge capture in the form of best practices, handbooks, 8:44 technical bulletins, technical reports or guidelines and workshops, 8:48 and we make these courses available most of the time to the public, 8:52 but it's definitely available on our NASA websites to ensure that this information is not lost for the next generation. 8:58 Can we talk a little bit about what you've worked on in the past? 9:01 You developed a model that is a NASA technical standard. 9:04 It's still in use today and it was written to protect spacecraft from micrometeoroids. 9:09 What went behind the development of this standard? 9:12 Yeah, I think when developing a standard, you have to keep in mind who the standard is going to apply to. 9:19 You have to know your audience and how they're going to use it. 9:23 In this particular case, spacecraft designers and operators for NASA had been reliant on a very simple model, 9:30 a mathematical expression really, and it characterized one of the natural environments 9:35 for spacecraft operating in space. 9:37 It helped describe the risk to the spacecraft from exposure to this environment. 9:42 The The model, though, was based on a very limited set of observational data and had not been updated 9:47 in decades from any new inputs, but the model was very simple to use and understand and therefore easy 9:54 for engineers and spacecraft operators to adopt and implement. 9:58 So an important lesson to consider for adopting or developing a new standard, 10:02 in this case, this new environment model that describes risk, 10:06 is your model or your standard must be anchored in data. 10:09 It needs to be relevant in the regime you're flying and you need to understand the limitations of that model 10:14 or the underlying data that went into it. 10:17 Thinking back to some of your earlier questions about carrying knowledge and experience forward, 10:21 it's really crucial when developing a standard to document all of those uncertainties and assumptions 10:26 and limits to when and how the model can be used. 10:30 Many experts contributed to developing this environment standard. 10:33 They had decades of experience working different research programs and flight programs that collected 10:39 and interpreted that data and all of that went into this model for this standard. 10:43 Their collective knowledge and lessons learned trying to apply that previous standard, 10:48 just seeing all the gaps, they brought that understanding and that knowledge with them as a new 10:53 and improved way of representing the risk from this environment. 10:56 And that shaped how this new standard really was developed. 10:59 We listened to the spacecraft designers and operators. 11:02 We understood what were the important parameters that they needed to work with and we made sure that when 11:07 we put out that new standard, it had that information in there and that it was an easy to use format. 11:13 Did your perspective and knowledge sharing change at all when you became responsible for leading teams? 11:19 Oh, absolutely. Yes. 11:21 It's always been on my mind to emulate those leaders, the positive qualities and characteristics that they had. 11:27 You know, when you have a good leader, 11:29 when they provide or set the overall vision and goals, 11:32 but then they give you the autonomy and independence to find creative ways to execute, 11:37 you know, whatever mission or goal is for the team. 11:40 I want to be that kind of leader. 11:42 I want to be that kind of leader for others, right? 11:44 Because I've had the good fortune and experience of having those in my life. 11:49 So reflecting back on my first team, my first team lead and mentors, 11:53 they helped me the most by sharing what they knew and not holding it back. 11:58 They freely shared the data they had access to, the methods that they developed, 12:03 all those little tips and tricks that they learned throughout their career, 12:06 they shared that with me to make me a better engineer. 12:10 And then in turn, that made me a better leader. 12:12 So in my leadership roles today, I really try to foster and encourage that same knowledge sharing 12:18 because I've seen the benefits to organizations when we shift from being stovepiped and protective of data to 12:24 when we're more open and share it freely. 12:27 You know, we're all successful when everyone has access to information, especially in a technical organization. 12:32 If you're really trying to do complex integration across multiple systems or multiple organizations, 12:38 I try to remove barriers and enable others to be successful. 12:42 And that's providing them access to special flight mechanics tools or technical training 12:48 or sharing information from senior experts, making them available to help improve designs. 12:54 lines. And then also being really intentional about building Tiger teams or assessment teams 12:59 that have all the different perspectives and diverse skill sets all to get the best product, 13:06 best solution for our customers. 13:09 I'm curious about the image I'm seeing on the wall behind you. 13:12 It's the ISS flying over Earth, the limit of the Earth, and there's a solar array behind it. 13:16 Does the image mean something to you? 13:18 Yeah. So this image that I actually keep in my office and I reflect on it, 13:22 I think it's really appropriate right for the conversation today. 13:26 This is a picture of the earth limb with meteoroids entering kind of a burning up in the atmosphere 13:33 and the image was taken from space station. 13:36 So my team when I left that organization they all find this really nice picture that 13:40 that represents the environment that I worked on for years and so it's really meaningful for me and I 13:46 like having it right by me. 13:48 We'll share the image on the podcast website at nasa .gov slash podcasts. 13:52 So, what advice do you have for upcoming engineers? 13:55 We talked a lot about knowledge sharing, how experience and lessons can be transferred between programs. 14:00 So, my advice for new engineers would be, be curious, ask a lot of questions. 14:05 That encourages mentoring, and that mentoring builds relationships. 14:09 And you're going to need to rely on those relationships over your career. 14:12 They're going to support you throughout the entire length of your career. 14:15 Be willing to ask for help or guidance. 14:17 Be open to working on a lot of different tasks. 14:20 There is always something to be learned from an experience. 14:23 You might even learn what not to do or what's not going to work. 14:27 But all of those experiences, positive and negative, 14:30 are valuable lessons and the more exposure you have to a variety of work, the more useful you are to this organization. 14:36 I love that and that seems to apply even to daily life, life outside of engineering? 14:41 I hope so. 14:42 It's what I try to teach my kids. 14:44 Heather, what was your giant leap? 14:46 My giant leap. 14:47 I've been thinking about this a lot in my career lately. 14:50 My giant leap has been realizing that it's the relationships you develop with people that contribute the most 14:57 to your success, probably more so than any technical achievement. 15:01 When I learned that it was okay to not know everything, 15:05 that it's okay to ask questions and ask for understanding, allow myself to be mentored. 15:10 That's when opportunities presented themselves and that's when I gained the best experiences. 15:15 I inherited the knowledge of all those senior engineers that gave me some of their time. 15:21 So the best gift that I can give back to them is to pass on what I've learned. 15:26 And I really feel that my legacy and the legacy of all those other incredibly talented leaders, 15:33 engineers, supervisors, team leads, project managers. 15:37 The legacies aren't your individual technical achievements. 15:40 It's the lives you invest in and the time we give to developing others. 15:45 It's the growth of the people that were mentored and taught. 15:50 Great advice. Well thank you Heather. 15:52 Thanks for joining us today and sharing your knowledge and insights. 15:55 Well thank you for having me. 15:56 This is really fun. 15:58 That's it for this episode of Small Steps Giant Leaps. 16:01 For a transcript and for all other episodes visit nasa .gov slash podcasts. 16:06 While you're there, check out our other podcasts, 16:07 like Houston We Have a Podcast, Curious Universe, and Universo Curioso de la NASA. 16:12 As always, thanks for listening. 16:28 This is an official NASA podcast.
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درباره‌ی این قسمت Heather Koehler, NASA Technical Fellow for Flight Mechanics, explains how knowledge at NASA is passed from person to person, program to program.
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