From Feeling Stressed to Enjoying English | A Real English Conversation with Chih-shian

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1. 0:00So how is it possible to move from always feeling stressed in English, having to prepare everything you want to say in advance and feeling
2. 0:12worried about what you might get wrong
3. 0:16to feeling like it's fun to have conversations in English, to enjoying the conversations and not preparing everything in advance?
4. 0:26How is that move possible?
5. 0:29That is something I chat about with Chi Chien in this conversation today.
6. 0:34And along the way, we talk about several other things.
7. 0:37We talk about books and podcasts that we love, including Why Neither of Us has read Harry
8. 0:45Potter. And I'm really sorry if you're a Harry Potter fan, I haven't read it.
9. 0:50We also talk about the fun of conversations in English when you get to share childhood memories, when you tell stories,
10. 1:00and you get to learn really interesting, fascinating things about other people and other cultures.
11. 1:08So I hope that you enjoy this conversation today. And most importantly, I hope that you begin to discover how it's possible to move
12. 1:16from feeling stressed in English to enjoying English conversations.
13. 1:28I realized today that I think I've known you for almost four years.
14. 1:33Yeah. Thank you, John. Yeah, you have a good memory. Yeah, I think you joined the, in the, the confident women community in the summer of 2022. Yes.
15. 1:43It's been almost four years. Uh - Yes. Yes. I'm so curious.
16. 1:49Inside our community, we have a new roadmap every month.
17. 1:53And now you've experienced a lot of them, a lot of different topics.
18. 1:57I'm really curious if you have a favorite. Wow.
19. 2:01It's, I think it's not a question easy to answer because as you just mentioned that I've been in CWC for four years.
20. 2:12You can imagine how many I have read.
21. 2:16So it's not an easy question. I said that. I think I just, uh, pick a simple answer is I want to focus on the current one
22. 2:26because - Oh, okay. Yeah. So, and oh, back to the, the, the question you, you are asking is I think I enjoy each of them.
23. 2:36Okay. And, uh, I learn new things from each of them.
24. 2:41And I want to, uh, use the current one as an example. And uh, the topic of the current roadmap is, uh,
25. 2:50explain your childhood or cultures and childhood, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So
26. 2:58the reason I like it is because I think, uh, two points.
27. 3:03First, um, it allows me to connect with ladies in the community.
28. 3:11Because when we talk about childhood, when we talk about cultures and traditions, we really share our personal stories. Mm-hmm.
29. 3:21And build up on a trust spaces.
30. 3:25So I think by talking about childhood rituals, uh, traditions, we share our, uh,
31. 3:33personal story as an example. And, uh, also at the same time, I think the other point is, uh, I learned different cultures from other ladies,
32. 3:45which I really appreciate for. Yeah. Just let me give you an example.
33. 3:50Yeah. I'm curious. Yeah. I have three language partners in, uh, Okay from Singapore, Yuki from Japan, and Irena from Italy.
34. 4:01So you can imagine, uh, how exciting every moment I share with them. And the, uh,
35. 4:09one story I gather from Yuki is that when she got a code as, uh, a kid - mm-hmm.
36. 4:17Her parents would wrap a green onion around her neck to make - A green onion? Yeah,
37. 4:25a long green onion around her neck to make her - I've never heard of that before. See? Yeah.
38. 4:33So to make her feel better. And, uh, she told me it worked. It worked. So I think it's a transition.
39. 4:43I mean, and the, the sense of behind the transition or the meaning behind the transition reveals
40. 4:50a kind of wisdom. Yeah. So, yeah. What, what, did she explain... And I'm fascinated by this, so I'm thinking about number one. Well, if you're a little child,
41. 5:02your s - your neck is small, but you have to have a pretty big and flexible green onion to tie it around your neck. Yeah, we do. We do have that kind of onion in Asia,
42. 5:13in Asia. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I've been in Japan, uh, a couple of months. Um, I stayed there, live there, uh,
43. 5:22for a couple months. So I saw that kind of onions. But I mean, for me, I know onions a good healthy food or - Yeah.
44. 5:33Uh, flavored food. Species.
45. 5:36I say that species and... Mm-hmm. What...
46. 5:41Tell me what you mean by species. It's like paper, uh, uh, paper, garlic. Or a spice. Yeah. It's a kind of spice. Or flavor. Yeah. Yeah.
47. 5:52Yeah. Flavor of food like garlic and things like that. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
48. 5:57Yeah. Yeah.
49. 5:58But I never thought green onion is a medicine and then you can just like, uh, scarf and wrap around your neck.
50. 6:07I wonder if there's, um, the smell because onions have a really strong smell.
51. 6:13I don't know if it clears with a cold. You get sinuses. You get a lot of, uh, mucus. And so I wonder if it's a little bit like...
52. 6:23I think about a really strong mustard and it kind of clears your... I wonder if the green... I have to ask Yuki.
53. 6:33I'm so curious now about that. That's - See? See, I think - That's really fascinating. I enjoy the conversation. Well, I, I know that you... Another question I wanted to ask you,
54. 6:45you were just in Oxford. You said you were in Oxford for eight days. Yeah.
55. 6:50Is that right? Yeah. I'm really curious, why were you in Oxford?
56. 6:53What were you doing? Was this for work? Part of my work, I give a talk there and, uh, I attended a conference there. Okay.
57. 7:02But I still got some leisure time to look around to, you know, there is some, uh, place, uh, filmed
58. 7:12in Har- Harry Potter, even though I, I, I haven't had a chance to watch that movie, but I was brought to that place and, uh, I think, wow.
59. 7:25Yeah. It's fascinating.
60. 7:27I have the chance to s- see this place in person.
61. 7:32Yeah. Have you read the books? No. I haven't either.
62. 7:36I feel... And everyone I know has read Harry... Well, now you are, you and I are in the same club. Right? I've not read Harry Potter. Never.
63. 7:45And I - Uh-huh. So many of my, my friends, I think about Tanya, uh, she loves, loves, loves, loves Harry Potter and I've never read it. I see.
64. 7:55I see. Never watched the movie. But, but I know you are a bookworm, right? I am.
65. 8:03So - I am. Yeah. Can you tell me if, if you feel comfortable, can you tell me - Of course. Why you, you don't ha- have, uh,
66. 8:13uh, you, you, you, you don't read the, the book? Yeah. Why, yeah, why I haven't read it. Uh, I don't have a good answer.
67. 8:22I don't know. I am a, a, you're exactly right. I'm a bookworm. I love books.
68. 8:27Actually, I wanna ask you about books. Um, I'm in two different book clubs.
69. 8:32I'm always reading.
70. 8:33I think I always have three or four books that I'm reading at the same time.
71. 8:37But I, I don't know. I know everybody loves Harry Potter, but it doesn't seem like a book that's my style. It's, it seems very magical.
72. 8:48Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm not, I don't really, I'm not into that, not into magic necessarily. Mm-hmm.
73. 8:55But I feel like I should try it. I shouldn't, I feel like I should try it just because everybody else loves it so much.
74. 9:04But - I see. But why haven't you read it? Why, why? Because I think - Similar.
75. 9:09Okay. Okay. Similar reason. Okay.
76. 9:12I'm not into that kind of book. Yeah.
77. 9:17It's not real and it's all about magic, uh, magics. Mm-hmm.
78. 9:22So I'm not that into it. Yeah. Do I remember though, Tishan, do you, are you a little bit into mysticism?
79. 9:32Do I remember that from a co - Mysticism?
80. 9:36Or - Are you - Yeah.
81. 9:38I'm trying to think about a conversation we had months ago in the community. I, I don't remember the topic. I don't remember the conversation,
82. 9:47but I think we were talking about a podcast that you were listening to. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Um - Remember? Yes.
83. 9:57Yes. Was it a podcast? A podcast.
84. 10:02And it combined what I'm, uh, I talked about is, uh, the podcast combine the scientific evidence
85. 10:11with some, uh, supernatural, uh - Yeah. Phenomena. Yes, that's...
86. 10:21Okay. That's what... Yeah. That's what it was.
87. 10:22Do you remember the name of the podcast? Okay. Breakdown.
88. 10:28Are you still listening to it? Uh, occasionally. Okay. 'Cause I have a list, a, a long list of podcaster. But occasionally,
89. 10:38like once a week. Well, that's a lot. I, I think that's a... Are you, are you a podcast person or a book person or both? What would you say?
90. 10:46A podcast person. Okay. Podcast, totally.
91. 10:50So Breakdown is on your list. Mm-hmm. What else? Mm-hmm.
92. 10:54What else are you listening to for podcasts? Uh, a lot of, uh, news podcast because, uh, my job require me to,
93. 11:04you know, update it myself by current news. Okay.
94. 11:10Well, I'm... I have two more questions I wanna ask you.
95. 11:13I hope I r- remember both of them. You are in academia, which I know carries a very heavy workload.
96. 11:20And there are times during the year when you're so busy with lectures and classes. You travel, you present.
97. 11:28I know there are many other things that you do.
98. 11:29You're also in the community and you're super active and you've got three conversation partners and you attend workshops. How do you do all of that?
99. 11:38It's amazing. I think, um, if you enjoy something - mm-hmm.
100. 11:45Then you will definitely have time to do the, them all. Uh, then you have definitely to have some time for each of them. Yeah.
101. 11:56Just like for my job, I have to earn bread, right?
102. 11:59So I have to, of course, I have to set up time for my job.
103. 12:05And, uh, for travel, I think that can broaden my perspective. Yeah. So
104. 12:12I really enjoy that. And I, the thing I really want to mention is about the community. So, uh, thank you for create, uh,
105. 12:23such a warm and, uh, encouraging and kind group of, uh, ladies.
106. 12:31You created this community f- for all of us.
107. 12:35So I enjoy every moment in a community. So why?
108. 12:41Even though I was, I, I'm so busy, as you mentioned.
109. 12:46But I always tell myself, spend like five to 10 minutes even I don't have enough time for, uh, the community activity,
110. 12:54but I got to be there to feel the vibe. Yeah.
111. 12:58And to be surrounded by a whole bunch of kind ladies.
112. 13:03Yeah. I love it. I, I feel the same way.
113. 13:06I feel selfish about the community because I, I really think I, I enjoy it so much that I think it, it's just for me. I,
114. 13:15I wanna do this because I enjoy it. So I feel sometimes I feel so selfish.
115. 13:19I just, I love being there and I love having conversations like this.
116. 13:24And so my, my last question, I'm really curious,
117. 13:28how would you define English confidence for you? What does it look like?
118. 13:33What does it feel like? Again, I've known you for four years now.
119. 13:37I've seen you making progress month after month after month.
120. 13:41And I'm just really curious, what does it, what does that mean to you now? Yeah.
121. 13:46Uh, I think short answer is, uh,
122. 13:52enjoying, um, enjoying the moment when I have English conversation.
123. 13:58Just like now I have a conversation with you. Yeah. That means, uh, confidence. Mm-hmm. And, you know, uh, or I, I,
124. 14:08in other words, I've started to focus on, um, con - um,
125. 14:17communication over perfection. Mm. Um, so let me give you, uh, some details. In the past, you know,
126. 14:26uh, when I want to speak something in English, I need to make sure everything is correct before speaking up.
127. 14:37Mm-hmm. And you can imagine how stressful it was.
128. 14:42And even I'm pretty sure I made everything,
129. 14:47uh, sure everything is in a correct form, but I still made a lot of mistakes. Yeah. So after the conversation,
130. 14:56I fall into the trap of rumination. So I regret.
131. 15:02Sometimes I agree. Uh, I was angry about myself.
132. 15:06I by myself to make
133. 15:10numbers and numbers of mistakes here and there. Yeah.
134. 15:14It feel so bad. Yeah.
135. 15:16So then now since I started to focus on communication over perfection, I think it's,
136. 15:26it's happened two years ago. Mm-hmm.
137. 15:29I started to enjoy the conversation because the content matters.
138. 15:34Hmm. And the, even though I'm, I, like our conversation now, I'm still doing, I'm still making mistakes.m.
139. 15:43But I think - So am I. So am I. But, but I think I understand you, you, you,
140. 15:51you understand me is an effective communication.
141. 15:56That's it. Yeah.
142. 15:57I don't want to blame myself for making mistakes because I'm still making mistakes when I speak my native language.
143. 16:09Why blame myself when I speak a foreign language? Yeah.
144. 16:14So that's a simple mentality, uh, uh, shift. Mm-hmm.
145. 16:19It helps me a lot. Yeah.
146. 16:22You pinpointed that it was about two years ago that you experienced this shift.
147. 16:29And I'm curious if you know what helped you or if you remember what helped you make that shift. Because I think about how many women you know,
148. 16:39how many women I know that, and I think about all the women around the world using English and how many of
149. 16:47them still struggle with that perfection. They still struggle with, "I want it to be perfect first and then when I feel ready, I'll say it.
150. 16:56" But then the outcome is just staying quiet or never saying what you want.
151. 17:00So how did you reach that point? Because it's such a big, it's a big shift. I mean, it, it seems so, when you talk about it,
152. 17:08it seems so easy. I just changed my mindset. But that is a really big shift.
153. 17:14That's easy. No, it's not. So, uh, what helped you get there? What...
154. 17:18Do you remember how you made that change?
155. 17:22I think two things because I, uh, I think one thing is as I mentioned earlier,
156. 17:32I attended, um, I think, uh, two years ago I started to attend or join the, uh,
157. 17:43uh, the, the, the conversation meeting with my language partners. Mm-hmm.
158. 17:48And then the second thing is, uh, I started found, uh, to find that people in academia from all over the world,
159. 18:00they don't really speak good or perfect English, but they still can communicate with each other. And,
160. 18:11uh, they seem so smart to deliver some new ideas and, uh, uh, new, uh, research findings.
161. 18:23That's the moment I think English is a tool for communications. So, uh, I would say it's not easy,
162. 18:34uh, to shift my mindset.
163. 18:37But once you find this two point, you can practi - you can always practice with the ladies in CWC.
164. 18:44The other thing is, is that smart people also make mistakes when they speak English. True. So yeah, this two point helps me.
165. 18:56Yeah. Well, I know I, I wanna respect your time. I know we need to end, but last year at the end of the year, you had a big milestone.
166. 19:06You were on a panel and, and led a panel discussion, which was a huge step.
167. 19:12And I know that you had other, you were more open to new things this year. So that, that experience was really positive, you felt good about it. I'm curious,
168. 19:23what is the next big thing for you with, with your English? What's the next big challenge for you? Wow.
169. 19:31I never though of that. I just, uh, follow the flow.
170. 19:36I - I like that. Yeah. Yeah, maybe give more English talk or English, uh, English,
171. 19:45uh, yeah. I think maybe give more English talk. Because you know what?
172. 19:49I can always prepare, uh, uh, for my presentation. Yeah. But I cannot prepare for Q&A.
173. 19:56I'm really bad at, uh, picking, uh, picking questions Q&A because you have to respond immediately.
174. 20:05Even though I, I can still, uh, do some preparation, but, you know, sometimes you always got a question that,
175. 20:15that you haven't or you never expect for. Yeah.
176. 20:19So it's really a challenge for me right now, but I'd like to expose myself to this kind of challenge in
177. 20:28English environment. Yeah. Well, number one, you just did it today right now with all of the questions I asked you.
178. 20:38And also, it is, I think it's a challenge for nearly everyone. I, I, we talked earlier about just before recording this, we had a, a workshop that was a Q&A for me.
179. 20:50And there were so many different topics and things that were absolutely unexpected. And you have to, yeah, think on the moment.
180. 20:59Think in the moment, not on the moment, in the moment.
181. 21:03And you don't always get it right. There are times when I, even today with you, with, with, um, there was a grammar thing and I said, "I need to think about how to explain this.
182. 21:13I'm not ready." And so we all have those moments. Uh, but I would say today you just did that.
183. 21:22There's something Chi Shian said that I hear again and again and again.
184. 21:27And it's something I actually talked about in a recent YouTube live.
185. 21:33It's the reality that it is possible for you to enjoy English.
186. 21:39It is possible for you to have so much fun having conversations in English that you forget that you're
187. 21:49speaking in English. You don't have that worry, the doubt, the anxiety, the uncertainty. It doesn't feel like an obligation. It doesn't feel stressful.
188. 21:58It's just fun.
189. 21:59It's what you do to relax and enjoy part of your day.
190. 22:04But what I really love about that is when there's something that we enjoy, it's easy to make time for it in our daily life.
191. 22:15The things that are hard are things that feel stressful and we feel this obligation that we have to do them.
192. 22:21And sometimes you might feel like that about English, about English practice.
193. 22:26Right now it might feel like something you have to do or you're supposed to do.
194. 22:32But when English starts to become fun,
195. 22:37you want to do it.
196. 22:38And it's kind of easy to create time or to find time in your daily life, even if you're super busy to do it. So I hope, as I said earlier, that you feel inspired.
197. 22:49I hope that you've identified a way to begin making that move for yourself, to begin moving from maybe feeling stressed or worried or
198. 23:00uncertain in your conversations to enjoying them, to having fun and feeling relaxed in the conversation as well.
199. 23:10And